- This topic has 12 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 7 months ago by Jackie.
November 15, 2019 at 12:42 am #4452JackieParticipant
Hello Gillian, I’ve just re-watched the last webinar to remind myself of our interaction re the pork pie that I chose to buy and eat.
I found the webinars very helpful, was managing to work through my ‘before bed’ addictive desires for the first time, and feeling very pleased with myself. The idea of totally free choice felt liberating. I also knew also that whatever I bought I would eat. So next time I was in my local farm shop I decided I was going to buy one of those pork pies which I had been denying myself for years. It was a high quality locally made pie, and not too big. In earlier days I would have eaten it in the car on my way home, but this time I took it home, put it in the fridge, and later heated it up to have with a large salad for my dinner so it wasn’t too unhealthy. I really enjoyed it (just as well I only got one), and felt quite pleased. There were no ill effects and I felt relaxed about having another one when I wanted to.
So when I first heard your comment -“watch out for the ‘when I want’ because the ‘when I want’ is addictive desire.” l felt quite shocked. It was as if you were accusing my beloved pork pie of being addictive. I later felt rebellious – this time towards you. Perhaps you get this a lot? I felt like going back to the shop and getting a load of pork pies to binge on just to show you! It was only when I re-watched the webinar that I saw that actually most of your comments were about being pleased that I wasn’t trying to be perfect.
This has made me think a lot. Was my shock at your comment a result of feeling caught out in my wrongdoing? Had I been fooling myself that I was choosing freely when I was just giving in to addictive desire? I did feel some guilt when I
was buying that pie. So it feels like a conundrum: I have total free choice about what and how much I eat – as long as I only choose healthy food and not too much of it. And that puts me back in the place of not having free choice.
I’m probably not he first person to be tangled up in this, and it might be something you come on to when talking about mindset?
Looking forward to the next episode.
November 15, 2019 at 8:24 am #4454NicolaParticipant
Yes, it’s all very subtle stuff, isn’t it? I think we’ll only get really clear on things like this by working with the material over the long term. I’m sure Gillian will have some wise words to say about it. In the meantime, I’m picturing a mountain made of pork pies, and a game called “pin the X on the pork pie mountain” and I guess you are the one who gets to pin the X where you see fit, and decide what is overeating pork pies and what is not. If pork pies are your thing, at some point you are going to want to eat one, right? Otherwise you’ll be in the prohibition cell.
Anyway, I look forward to hearing Gillian’s perspective on this!
November 15, 2019 at 12:29 pm #4455LucyParticipant
I find I am not sure if I’m truly giving myself free choice … its quite hard to know I think.
November 15, 2019 at 1:19 pm #4456GillianModerator
Yes, Jackie, I do get this a lot!!!
“…as if you were accusing my beloved pork pie of being addictive” – Any food can be addictive, but especially any high-carb-high-fat combination, such as the pork pie. And, the best, most sustainable goal is to aim to eat in an addictive way less often, rather than not at all.
“I have total free choice about what and how much I eat – as long as I only choose healthy food and not too much of it.” – This is the mistake so many make, and thanks, Jackie, for bringing this into the forum discussion. What will serve you best is:
“I have total free choice about what and how much I eat – including the freedom to eat huge quantities of unhealthy food.”
I’ve seen many people do a course with me and begin to think, “it’s not forbidden so I’ll eat it”. I remember one lady in particular in a seminar in London who said, “the last time I gave myself freedom of choice about food I gained 40lbs.”
What makes all the difference is knowing you are free to overeat anything in any quantity – and then freely choose what works for you. It seemed to me that you did that with the pork pie. What I was adding was that it does have a very addictive quality to it, so if you have one every time you want one, that could easily escalate into not being what you really want to create for yourself.
November 15, 2019 at 1:26 pm #4457GillianModerator
Nicola, thanks for your comment in this thread. I have a comment that may help you.
“If pork pies are your thing, at some point you are going to want to eat one, right? Otherwise you’ll be in the prohibition cell.”
What puts you in the prohibition cell is the belief that you’re not free to eat anything you can get your hands on.
It’s entirely possible never to eat a certain item or type of food without being in the prohibition cell, and you do that by freely choosing. Remember, you don’t have to do it to prove it!
November 15, 2019 at 1:38 pm #4458GillianModerator
Lucy, thanks too for your comment.
You say it’s quite hard to know if you’re truly giving yourself free choice. May I suggest you review the exercises at the end of Week 1: Exploring Choice, Parts A and B. And at the end of Week 3: Exploring Freedom.
For example, just a few days ago you posted that you really do believe that you “can’t go on like this”. This is your denial of free choice. I know you don’t want to go on like this – but knowing that you could will make the crucial difference.
Maybe you can re-evaluate some of your answers in these exercises at some point?
November 15, 2019 at 2:07 pm #4459LucyParticipant
Thanks Gillian….thats interesting looking again at my answers to 1:9 and 3:6.
I read them out and recognised they don’t have the same emotional intensity attached to them that they once did and I felt accepting of my free choice….
November 15, 2019 at 2:12 pm #4460GillianModerator
Yeah!!! Watch me dance around my office.
November 15, 2019 at 5:01 pm #4461NicolaParticipant
Thanks, Gillian. You are such a clear teacher and yet this is such hard stuff to really grasp! I guess we have been doing the opposite for many years – it’s always harder to undo bad habits than to not get into them in the first place!
November 15, 2019 at 7:37 pm #4462GillianModerator
Thank you, Nicola.
It is tough because you are not simply learning facts, like “there are x number of calories in a Big Mac or a banana”.
Instead, you are getting your brain to change its habitual neural pathways. This is why it takes some time – but more like weeks than months. It’s so good to see that people are beginning to get it.
November 16, 2019 at 12:18 pm #4463JackieParticipant
Thanks Gillian, I too have been through the thing of ‘eating anything I want’ and gained a few stones in the process. This is clearly very different and it’s helpful to know about changing my brain patterns. I don’t think there’s too much danger of my pork pie eating escalating – it feels like I’ve broken their spell!
One thing I’m trying to figure out is the difference between wanting and choosing. I can want something and choose to eat it, or I can want something and choose not to eat it. If I did the first all the time I’d be doing addictive eating. If I did the second all the time, I’d be too perfect. Is that right? So when do I choose not to be perfect? I don’t think I’d choose to eat something If I didn’t want to. I guess after years of restricting it’s hard to know what I really need. Maybe I’m intellectualising too much and should go back over the issue of choice?
I’ve certainly reduced my addictive eating over the last few weeks and feeling better. So thanks to you Gillian and to everyone for your contributions.
November 16, 2019 at 2:51 pm #4464GillianModerator
“I can want something and choose to eat it, or I can want something and choose not to eat it. If I did the first all the time I’d be doing addictive eating. If I did the second all the time, I’d be too perfect. Is that right?”
Yes, that’s it. The only thing I’d change in what you’ve written is to say, “I choose to accept and allow this feeling of unsatisfied desire” (or something like that) when you choose not to eat. In other words, Work Through Desire.
“So when do I choose not to be perfect?”
I’ll speak about that in Session 6. But it sounds like you’re doing fine, so no big worry. You discover what you really need through trial and error – you get to practice every day!
November 17, 2019 at 12:49 pm #4469JackieParticipant
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